Curse

JR · Jul 17, 2006, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by zepath

In high level GvG there are usually 3 or even 4 monks.

Thee or four monks? Er no, I think you are thinking of smite builds. There are usually TWO monks, occasionally three. Smite builds being the exception with up to four.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zepath

In GvG there are 8 players. Most times, people are so focused on killing one of the 3 monks, or crippling, or edenial, that no attention is paid to the warriors. They can frenzy unmolested.

No, they can't. Good teams will target frenzy spamming Warriors just as much as anything else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zepath

In fact, the primary focus of GvG isn't really to kill off the entire opposing team, so damage isn't even a priority.

Er, the actual objective isn't no, but you largely complete that objective THROUGH killing the other team. So yes, you need damage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zepath

In RA/TA there are 4 players. Regardless of what's going on, there's usually someone watching you.

In GvG there are 8, with enough organisation to all target the same person.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zepath

Tiger Stance accomplishes the same goal for the same energy.

Not really, the side clause to it is a serious gimp.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

Tiger stance can't be used to adrenaline spike properly, making it much easier to catch spikes.

I would say Tiger Stance was ONLY decent for spiking. Catch them before they can get that Guardian, or while they are still Blacked out and can't use that Distortion... For pressure it just sucks against decent monks with Guardian.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ole Man Bourbon

I prefer Tiger's Fury, but Frenzy can be used if you have another stance to switch to if you're coming under attack, like Sprint.

Why would you ever not have a speed buff? Makes my life a lot easier as a monk...

Quote:

Originally Posted by zepath

Stance cancelling works... maybe 1/10 of the time. Even a good warrior can't simply "stance cancel" every time they see a caster "raise his hands" in their general direction.

How many "good Warriors" have you met? Obviously... none?

Quote:

Originally Posted by zepath

Also, GvG warriors don't stance cancel. If you watch carefully, the monks simply heal through it, or they die.

That is f'ng ridiculous. Of course they do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by D E L E T E D

The reason rush is used is not because it is good for energy management, its used because it can be used more than sprint, which in turn means less getting worked by frenzy.

It works both ways; as an alternative to Sprint on an energy intensive bar, and being more suitable on a Warrior that will be frequently switching.

TheOneMephisto · Jul 17, 2006, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by jummeth

Shock axe warriors are very energy hungry.

Rush is even more on-demand than sprint. At most you will ever suffer is 3 seconds downtime with rush unless you are diverted/blacked out etc etc.

With sprint and shock you can actually be caught with your pants down and not be able to cancel frenzy.

Rush is not on-demand, since it requires adrenaline. On-demand being so that any time (assuming it's not recharging and you ahve energy) you can just press the button. In GvG, on-demand speed boosts are nice for things like helping run flags and the such. In RA, I doubt that it would matter.

Divineshadows · Jul 17, 2006, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by zepath

In high level GvG there are usually 3 or even 4 monks. Each one of these monks is highly responsively and, in every aspect of the word, godly. They have a wide variety of monks. Infusers, booners, prot monks, all dedicated to preventing spikes.

A team with 3 monks in GvG is going to suffer on damage and pressure and play for attrition. 4 monks is out of the question really. You must have confused smite monks with prot monks while observing. Yes a smite monk can help prevent spikes, but don't lose sight of the fact that they exist as a damage buff for the warriors.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zepath

Most times, people are so focused on killing one of the 3 monks, or crippling, or edenial, that no attention is paid to the warriors.

No attention paid to warriors in GvG? Nothing could be further from the truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zepath

They can frenzy unmolested.

Against teams that are 1000+ on the ladder...perhaps. In TA, frenzy is actually easier to use correctly because you only have to pay attention to 2 or 3 players who can punish you while in frenzy. In GvG, that number grows to 4 or 5. Using frenzy properly is all about being aware of the opponent's ability to punish you. Knowing where their melee character is in relation to you is a big part of determining whether or not you can use frenzy. Watching their casters to determine which spells they are using. Nothing can punish a frenzied warrior harder than an ineptitude mesmer, so this is when you have to be the most careful to observe and knowing the recharges on skills helps. Also, if your team has an interrupt ranger and you're on vent, then using frenzy is a great way to draw out skills for a distracting shot (lightning orb, energy burn, obsidian flame, etc.).

Quote:

Originally Posted by zepath

In fact, the primary focus of GvG isn't really to kill off the entire opposing team, so damage isn't even a priority.

Design a build for GvG where you don't do damage and you will lose for certain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fb2000

why wouldnt u use rush on say an Axe shock warrior?

On a shock axe in TA, I am for rush all the way. So much so that unless either sprint or rush is altered in some way I'll never play sprint on shock axe in TA again. Also, if I see a shock axe warrior in my team using sprint instead of rush when I am monking, then I demand we go back to outpost after 10 wins and have the player switch skill. In GvG, whether to use rush or sprint on a shock axe depends highly on your entire team's build.

Symbol · Jul 17, 2006, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Rush is not on-demand, since it requires adrenaline. On-demand being so that any time (assuming it's not recharging and you ahve energy) you can just press the button. In GvG, on-demand speed boosts are nice for things like helping run flags and the such. In RA, I doubt that it would matter.

That's a really odd definition of "on demand". The 20sec recharge on sprint is precludes it from being on demand and IMO that's not a particularly good way to characterize those two skills.

Rush: Better stance cancel for frenzy (unless you're using a skill with "loses all adrenaline" clause), much better in combat speedboost, better on energy heavy builds

Sprint: Better with final thrust, hammer bash, shove, etc. Better for out of combat mobility.

I think that about sums it up.

TheOneMephisto · Jul 18, 2006, 12:46 AM // 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symbol

That's a really odd definition of "on demand". The 20sec recharge on sprint is precludes it from being on demand and IMO that's not a particularly good way to characterize those two skills.

Rush: Better stance cancel for frenzy (unless you're using a skill with "loses all adrenaline" clause), much better in combat speedboost, better on energy heavy builds

Sprint: Better with final thrust, hammer bash, shove, etc. Better for out of combat mobility.

I think that about sums it up.

Yea, by on-demand I meant that you can use it anywhere, as opposed to rush, where you can only use it in battle.

zepath · Jul 18, 2006, 02:02 AM // 02:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

Design a build for GvG where you don't do damage and you will lose for certain.

There have been several people criticizing my comment that the primary focus of GvG is not damage. Please don't push a moderate statement by myself to an extreme. I did not say that people design builds for GvG that "don't do damage." That's preposterous, like making an 8 heal monk team.

But do realize that per player, comparing GvG to TA/RA, there is far more damage output in TA/RA. In GvG, the "heal party" elementalist is usually also a water elementalist with snares/general usage skills, most of which do relatively little damage compared to the typical lightning spike TA/RA elementalists.

The mesmers in GvG are primarily edenial/harrassment, which although seen in TA/RA, are less common than damage domination mesmers with backfire (since single monk TA/RA means less chance of removing it through cover hexes).

Certainly GvG has damage, but not nearly as concentrated as seen in RA/TA 4 man groups.

zepath · Jul 18, 2006, 02:06 AM // 02:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Thee or four monks? Er no, I think you are thinking of smite builds. There are usually TWO monks, occasionally three. Smite builds being the exception with up to four.

I never claimed there were 4 heal monks. Usually 1 boon prot, 1 blessed light, 1 or 2 AoE smite and a heal party elementalist.

At the very least, there are 2 dedicated heal monks as well as a heal party elementalist. Essentially 2 spike healers and 1 pressure healer.

In the case of upwards of 4 monks (with 2 AoE smiters) do realize that the AoE smiters are also healing their targets, as well as protecting them with guardian, reversal, etc. At the end of the day, although useless at defending against spike, AoE smite monks are also secondary healers.

yesitsrob · Jul 18, 2006, 02:21 AM // 02:21

i don't even care to read anything but the Original post and the title of this thread.

It's completely wrong. K

Quote:

Also, GvG warriors don't stance cancel. If you watch carefully, the monks simply heal through it, or they die.

No, we do, stop talking garbage.

I highly recommend no one pays attention to this thread at all

Slit Wrists · Jul 18, 2006, 08:34 AM // 08:34

JR, you own.

Tiyuri · Jul 22, 2006, 04:02 PM // 16:02

This thread is a putrid explosion of ignorance.

Winstar · Jul 22, 2006, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by zepath

Also, GvG warriors don't stance cancel. If you watch carefully, the monks simply heal through it, or they die.

Thats not true. You should still cancel your frenzy if you are getting spiked...don't be silly

JR · Jul 22, 2006, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiyuri

This thread is a putrid explosion of ignorance.

It made me cry with frustration.

Ensign · Jul 22, 2006, 07:33 PM // 19:33

The reason you should not use Frenzy in arena, is because you are a moron and will only get yourself killed with it. You should not use a vampiric weapon either, because you will forget to switch it off and degen out.

If you are a moron you should play a W/Mo with Healing Hands, Healing Breeze, Vigorous Spirit, and stances. Everyone will know you're a moron, but you'll be an *alive* moron while your team collapses around you.

Peace,
-CxE